Curse

wren e · Aug 10, 2006, 10:17 PM // 22:17

For those of you that are calling for specifics on how to tweak the Elementalist, instead of just having the areas pointed out that need to be address. I have come up with a very long list of changes that would increase the effectiveness without imbalancing the class (or at least I tried not to get too carried away) so please be patient when reading this. Remeber that these are just my ideas, feel free to add yours.

And FYI, in the interview with Izzy on WoC, he did say that there are many skills that need to be improved, just that they want to do a little at a time to not completely change the feel for the game. I suggest that when each new expansion comes out, that these skills can be changed in mass amounts since the metagame is going to change drastically with the new professions and skills that will be introduced at that time.

Air Magic

Air Attunement - have energy storage effect duration instead of air magic

Arc Lightning - change if foe is suffering from a water hex to any hex

Lightning Hammer - change cost to 20e and lower recharge to 5 (this brings it more in line with orb since that is 15 cast and 5 recharge making this a viable choice between the two)

Gust - change to 1 sec cast and 5 sec recharge and foe suffering from any hex

Glimmering Mark - change condition foes suffer from to Dazed

Lightning Javelin - change cast time to ¼ sec,

Lightning Surge - increase damage to 129

Lightning Touch - change recharge to 5 secs and increase damage to 77 lightning damage and additional 50 damage if foe is suffering from any hex instead of water hex

Mind Shock - remove exhaustion

Ride the lightning - increase damage to 106 at 16 air and lower recharge to 10

Shock Arrow - change damage to 53 at 16 air and increase recharge time to 3 secs

Teinai’s Wind - change recharge to 5 secs and casting time to ¼ sec

Whirlwind - change recharge to 5 secs and casting time to ¼ sec

Earth Magic

Ash Blast – increase damage to 54 at 16 earth and casting time to ¾ sec

Churning Earth - lengthen duration to 10 secs, recharge to 20 secs, area effective in the area, lower damage to 32 at 16 earth, and make it a hex spell with the effects staying with the target foe until time ends or removed

Crystal Wave - change area to nearby, recharge to 10 secs, casting time ¼ sec and remove aftercast

Dragon’s Stomp - change area foes are affected to earshot, knockdown last for 3 secs

Earthquake - change area foes are affected to earshot, knockdown last for 3 secs

Eruption - lengthen duration to 10 secs, recharge to 20 secs, area effective in the area, lower damage to 32 at 16 earth, and make it a hex spell with the effects staying with the target foe until time ends or removed

Earth Attunement - have energy storage effect duration instead of earth magic

Grasping Earth - change recharge to 10 secs

Iron Mist - change recharge to 15 secs

Magnetic aura - change to skill, recharge 15 secs

Shockwave - increase damage to 65 at 16 earth, recharge to 15 secs

Sliver Armor - change recharge to 20 secs

Teinai’s Crystals - change area to nearby, recharge to 10 secs, casting time ¼ sec and remove aftercast

Unsteady Ground - change area of effect to earshot range, knockdown for 3 secs, lengthen duration to 10 sec

Fire Magic

Burning Speed - cost to 15e, recharge 5 secs, for 5…10 sec you are no longer on fire and you move 30%...46% faster. When burning speed ends, you and all adjacent foes are set on fire for 3…9 secs.

Fire Attunement - have energy storage effect duration instead of fire magic

Incendiary Bonds - change adjacent to nearby, increase damage to 92 at 16 fire

Smoldering Embers - change damage to 57 at 16 fire, casting time 1 sec

Bed of Coals - area of effect to earshout range, damage to 51 at 16 fire, recharge to 25 secs

Breath of Fire - make it hex a spell, recharge 20 sec, for 5 secs target and nearby foes are struck for 51 fire damage each sec.

Double Dragon - remove exhaustion, casting time to ¼ sec, recharge to 20 secs, remove aftercast

Fire Storm - change area of effect to nearby, 57 damage at 16 fire, recharge to 20 sec

Fireball - change cast time to 1 sec, recharge to 10 sec, lower damage to 91 and change area of effect to nearby

Flame Burst - increase energy cost to 20e, change cast time to ¼ sec, remove aftercast, change area of effect to in the area

Inferno - change area of effect to nearby, casting time to ¼ sec, recharge to 15 secs, remove aftercast

Lava Arrows - damage to 46 at 16 fire, recharge to 5 secs

Lava Font - change damage to 57 at 16 fire, recharge to 10 secs, area of effect to in the area, remove aftercast

Meteor - recharge at 20 secs, knockdown for 3 secs

Meteor Shower - change damage to 154 at 16 fire, recharge to 40 secs, area of effect to earshout range, have it kd/damge, 3 sec wait, kd/damge, 3 sec wait, kd/damage, 3 sec wait, and kd/damage.

Mind Burn - remove exhaustion, casting cost to 10e

Phoenix - change casting cost to 30e, damage to 142 at 16 fire at your location, area of effect to nearby, damage at target location 91 at 16 fire, add area of effect to target location of in the area

Rodgort’s Invocation - change damage to 154 at 16 fire, casting time to 2 secs

Searing Heat - change to hex spell, damage to 51 at 16 fire, area of effect to in the area, recharge to 20 secs

Star Burst - Change to skill, damage to 175 at 16 fire, casting cost to 15e

Teinai’s Heat - change to hex spell, damage to 51 at 16 fire, area of effect to in the area, recharge to 20 secs

Water Magic

Mirror of Ice – recharge to 5 sec, casting cost to 10 sec

Swirling Aura – recharge to 30 sec

Water Attunement - have energy storage effect duration instead of fire magic

Blurred Vision – recharge to 15 secs

Deep Freeze – casting time to 2 sec, cost to 20e, area of effect to in the are

Frozen Burst – casting time to ¼ sec, recharge to 20 sec, remove aftercast

Ice Prison – remove effect ends if target takes fire damage

Ice Spikes – area of effect to nearby, casting time to 1 sec

Mind Freeze – remove exhaustion

Rust – change to cannot activate Signets

Shard Storm – change damage to 84 at 16 water

Satterstone – change damage to 70 when first struck, 75 when hex ends, recharge to 15 secs

Teinai’s Prison - remove effect ends if target takes fire damage

Icy Prism – change cast time to ¼ sec, target foes action is interrupted, if that was a signet then all that foe’s signets are disabled for 3…9 secs

Maelstrom – change to hex spell, change area of effect to in the area.

Vapor Blade – change damage to 155 at 16 water

Water Trident – change casting cost to 10e, increase damage to 86 at 16 water, increase recharge to 5 secs

Elemetalist Other

Second Wind – remove this spell causes exhaustion. Make it a skill, recharge to 10 secs

Glyph of Lesser Energy – recharge to 15 secs

Glyph of Essence – For 15 secs, your next spell does not cause exhaustion, recharge 20 secs

Glyph of Energy – recharge 10 secs

Glyph of Elemental Power – recharge 2 secs

Glyph of Renewal – recharge 10 secs

Energy Storage

Elemental Attunement – make it a skill

Ether Renewal – duration to 10 secs, energy per enchantment on you to 1…4

Symbol · Aug 10, 2006, 11:20 PM // 23:20

Ok I'll post a more detailed critique after I get some sleep, but here are my thoughts about your changes:

* No elementalist spells should have "earshot" range. This is a moniker reserved specifically for shouts, "in the area" is already quite huge for spells that do 100+ damage per shot.

* Attunements should be linked to their respective attributes, not e storage. They also need a slight reduction in recharge, to say 35 or 40 seconds.

* DoTs. Much too overpowered. If you're going to hugely buff the damage and the AoE there's no way you should make them hexes. Opponents should always have a chance to avoid their effects. Honestly, I'd prefer bumping the AoE's a notch and shorter recharges in some cases.

* Glyphs: Glyphs need shorter cast times (1/4 sec) not shorter recharges (except for GoLE).

I like a lot of your changes, the above are just things I disagree with.

eternal pho · Aug 11, 2006, 12:46 AM // 00:46

Maybe because some people don't know how to use them right? o.O

Cynn Evennia · Aug 11, 2006, 03:52 PM // 15:52

I agree with some of the changes you propose, wren e:

1. Remove exhaustion from Mind X.
2. Shorter casting times (following Symbol) and recharge times on Glyphs
3. The idea of making some AoE hexes, just as Tainted flesh and Spiteful spirit work: the effect follows the hexed foe and affects adjacent/nearby allies of that foe.
4. All spells that are now cast in 3 secs should be cast in 2 secs instead, and Meteor Shower on 3 secs instead of the current 5 secs.
5. Lightning hammer with 20 energy cost and 5 recharge: why not if Lightning orb deals the same damage?

The Attunements issue is delicate but urgent. As they are now we need to have twin attunements on to cast continuously, they are very easy to remove and their recharge times are painfully gigantic. I have proposed less recharge times on attunements (15-20 secs) and better percentages of energy back to get rid of the twin attunements and to have the chance to fill the elite slot with a non energy management spell for a change.

And please ANET, make a stance to prevent our enchants to be stripped!

ZenRgy · Aug 11, 2006, 05:07 PM // 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynn Evennia

I agree with some of the changes you propose, wren e:
5. Lightning hammer with 20 energy cost and 5 recharge: why not if Lightning orb deals the same damage?

Lightning orb is a projectile, this is the penalty for a lower cost.

Horseman Of War · Aug 11, 2006, 11:26 PM // 23:26

ey man you all asked 4 nerf u got nerfs u now whine that ur eles subpar

maybe if MORE classes got exhaustion, then eles would automatically be balanced by default

the class isnt THAT messed up- but some minor changes would go a long way...

Ive never been a fan of energy storage anyways- you got 999 energy for what.. all of 10 seconds? then you are stuck in the teens like everyone else.

n/e for the win.
What needs changed in ELEs are the energy storage- its kind of stupid atm... it should give you better regen, not just a bigger pool to dry up.

guffey · Aug 12, 2006, 12:45 AM // 00:45

i like the idea of a skill thats stops stripping enchantments. But overall i think the ele is still Superbly effective, you just have to know how to use them.

I think ele attunement is overated by most ppl. yeah it gives you 70% energy back when u cast any elemental spell, but that wont help you at all if you arcane echo meteor shower because now you are so exhausted, you only have half you energy left and it will be gone in 10 seconds. Plus only 1 meteor can hurt enemies at a time. They take damage and get knocked down, stand up and get knocked down with dmg. There is no point to echoing meteor shower because it will mabye give you a single extra hit.

Instead ppl need to learn to use glyph of energy with meteor shower, meaning your still at FULL energy, then casting inciderary bonds, followed by rodgorts invocation, and fireball and by the time the 2nd or 3rd meteor hits their dead... Very fast and very effective. with this fire attunement is enough. and glyph of energy has such a fast recharge time compared to lessar energy, you can use it on rodgorts invocation by the time you get to it.

Ive run this build for a long time in FoW and UW and NEVER had an energy problem at all while the echo nukers were justing sitting there not able to cast anything.

Learn to play an ele, dont complain that there gona be worthless.

Cynn Evennia · Aug 12, 2006, 02:37 AM // 02:37

I guess Spike and Guffey need some directions.

We all here have posted several times that the elementalists have the best e management skills ingame: Ether Prodigy, Ether renewal, Glyph of energy for instance. The problem we are talking about is that without enchantments and e management elites we cannot keep casting at will, and in that way all non energy related elites are useless.

We have not said "eles suck". Please learn to read and open your mind to different opinions beyond the narcissist "omg you are the man you rock show me the light master" speech you seem to be waiting for every new post. We have only said that "eles do not deal real damage to be considered as a threat", thats the point, nothing more, nothing less.

Also we all have acknowledge that elementalists, due to energy storage, are the best support characters. Our complain is because ANET sold the elementalist as THE damage dealer and that lie is what motivates all "eledramatic" threads. Read the Prima guide and the official site, the very first word describing eles is DAMAGE. Warriors, necros, rangers and assassins can deal more damage than an elementalists, so THE damage dealer is below the mean (5th place out of 8): kinda sad and frustrating, no?

I agree that the elementalists are still very popular but for the side effects like KD with Meteor Shower, a cliché spell. Do not say i hate MS, its one of my favourite spells, im just saying that its used more as a KD skill and for making foes move away and lose inertia than for raw damage. (Personal note: 5 secs of casting, 60 recharge and exhaustion do not make me say "i love this game" each time i use MS)

In summary: elementalists have the best e management skills, their huge amount of energy grants them to be the best supporting profession, but they do not deal enough damage to be considered a threat, which is incongruent with the official discourse of ANET.

Symbol · Aug 12, 2006, 03:32 AM // 03:32

I'm actually not a huge fan of reducing attunement recharge to absurdly low levels (<20 secs). Practically infinite energy needs to have a cost afterall.

But damn it, while they're up I want my spell spam to be _fearsome_. If I'm going to spend two or three slots on emanagement and another three on nukes then I want to be doing some serious harm, just like how a warrior will pwn faces if left alone. Currently that isn't the case so...

guffey · Aug 13, 2006, 03:18 AM // 03:18

sry i was thinking eveyone was talking PVE for some reason, probably because i am pve and a pve ele owns still..

PvP i can see your point. there pretty handicapped in a battle. Anet should make them what there supposed to be, and if Anet doesn't feel like making them stronger, then i think we will probably loose most eles in PvP except warders...

TheMosesPHD · Aug 13, 2006, 05:31 AM // 05:31

Wait wait...I must've missed something. So this thread is about eles having trouble in PvP? Well then I must be mistaken then when I see eles in teams for both PvP and PvE alike all the time. People use eles for warders...AoE pressure...classic water hexing...I still even see air eles from time to time.

A lot of people have posted about how a lot of ele skills aren't useful in PvP and all that jazz but...wait what is it you said? "Every profession has dozens of skills that are totally impracticle and unused in PvP"? Hmmz...so why is it a problem when it's the same for eles?

Cynn Evennia · Aug 13, 2006, 09:08 AM // 09:08

This thread is about eles in both PvP and PvE contexts.

The point in PvE is that even if eles are quite interesting they do not deal as much damage as a warrior, assassin, necro or ranger can. So an ele "owns" is not quite correct, id say an ele "is the coolest supporting class and helps a lot" but an ele cannot "own" because you cannot deal as much DOT than other professions, not to mention what you do with a single spell.

Lets talk about PvE. You can send an apocalypse: Meteor shower, Rodgorts; Incendiary bonds, Fireball but check the costs and the energy/damage ratio:

casting: 5+3+2+2=12 secs
energy: 25+25+15+10=75
damage on a mursaat boss: 21x4 (its real) plus 14x6 (on fire)=86+84+170

A curses necro deals 37 dmg with SS and 42 with mark of pain, both ignoring armor, and spends 25 energy.

37+43=70

Make your tank hit the adjacent boss, and in 3 seconds you will deal 210 damage.

Now, is this comparison clear enough to convince you?

TGgold · Aug 13, 2006, 02:11 PM // 14:11

But that's not factoring in the AoE.
What if the AoEs hit say, 3 targets. What would it be then?

Anywho, I think that ElE Damage is gimped just by being elemental, but that's another story >_>

Oh yeah, and for the Air spells that trigger on a water hex....keep it that way. WATER = CONDUCTIVE. It's not there just to look pretty.

masteroflife · Aug 13, 2006, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGgold

Oh yeah, and for the Air spells that trigger on a water hex....keep it that way. WATER = CONDUCTIVE. It's not there just to look pretty.

Um... water doesn't conduct electricty. It's the ions that exist in water. it's a common misconception.

Yanman.be · Aug 13, 2006, 02:38 PM // 14:38

wtfpwned him there masteroflife ^^.

ubermancer · Aug 13, 2006, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by masteroflife

Um... water doesn't conduct electricty. It's the ions that exist in water. it's a common misconception.

Also why its possible to cool your computer in distilled water... assuming you have some way of keeping it distilled.

Samuel Dravis · Aug 13, 2006, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubermancer

Also why its possible to cool your computer in distilled water... assuming you have some way of keeping it distilled.

Much easier to just use oil, however. Don't have to worry about it becoming dangeresque.

Ensign · Aug 13, 2006, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Water naturally disassociates...

What do terrible chemistry educations have to do with this thread?

Peace,
-CxE

TheMosesPHD · Aug 13, 2006, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Well hmmz...an ele may not be able to straight out deal as much damage as a warrior might deal on a single target, but like a couple replies said, many spells are AoE, or have an added effect like burning or a water hex. Also a warrior has to be right up next to the target to be dealing that damage, an ele can stay at the edge of the aggro bubble and still throw out damage. While the warrior has to run from place to place to change targets, having an even harder time doing it in PvP settings where they're being kited, an ele can just turn and hit another spell if it wants to change targets.

All of this, on top of the fact that I don't see any real decline in the use of eles in either PvE or PvP, makes me think you're all making a big fuss over nothing.

Silver_Fang · Aug 13, 2006, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD

Well hmmz...an ele may not be able to straight out deal as much damage as a warrior might deal on a single target, but like a couple replies said, many spells are AoE, or have an added effect like burning or a water hex. Also a warrior has to be right up next to the target to be dealing that damage, an ele can stay at the edge of the aggro bubble and still throw out damage. While the warrior has to run from place to place to change targets, having an even harder time doing it in PvP settings where they're being kited, an ele can just turn and hit another spell if it wants to change targets.

All of this, on top of the fact that I don't see any real decline in the use of eles in either PvE or PvP, makes me think you're all making a big fuss over nothing.

In PvE, elementalist is a nuker but they dont have advantage over warrior, Their long duration AoE will scatter the mobs, and warrior dont need to chase after mobs. Yea, Elementalist got burning, but warrior can have conditions like bleeding, KD, deep wound, etc. Most of the time in PvE the warrior is right next to the mob.

And talk about PvP, most Elementalist are not Damage Dealer in PvP but the warrior. i guess most of the top 100 guilds are noob and don't know how to play an elementalist.

Elementalist are being used, but not as a damage dealer as they should be, they are used as support class because of the huge mana pool and glyph. They are used in PvE is because it doesn't really matter much and people always have the mindset of the holy trinity, Tank, Nuker and Healer.

Elementalist dont need to run up to the target, but their casting time is so long that is easier to interupt.